Build It Right: Leadership Committees Done Well

What makes a great leadership committee — and who should be on it? In this week's episode, Rhen sits down with special guest Matt Bond to unpack one of the more beneficial, yet confusing, structures in fundraising. Whether it's called an advisory committee, a fundraising committee, or a capital campaign committee, don't get hung up on the name — the function is what matters.

Rhen and Matt dig into the ideal size, scope, and makeup of an effective committee. They get specific about who belongs at the table, and as Rhen summarizes, it likely comes down to three things: faith, influence, and affluence. Matt also pulls back the curtain on the common mistakes leaders make — the kind that can quietly undermine even the most well-intentioned committee.

And just when you think you have the full picture, Rhen ends the episode on a cliffhanger. This episode covers the roles and responsibilities of leadership committee formation, but tune in next time for a deep dive into day-to-day committee management.

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

 04:16.84 Host Well, howdy everybody. Welcome back to the Petrus Development Show. I am Rhen Hoehn from Petrus Development, and joining me today we have a special guest — Petrus Consultant Matt Bond. How's it going, Matt?

04:32.38 Matt Hey, hey! Now, when you say "special," I always question what kind of special you're referring to. I think it could go any direction you wanted to go, Rhen.

04:43.48 Host No comment. We'll let your imagination go wherever it wants. I know you're joining us today from Oklahoma.

04:46.45 Matt Yeah.

04:50.20 Host Glad to have you. Do you want to talk about what you've been up to? You've been on the show before — it's been a while, though. What kind of projects have you been working on? I know a bunch of campaigns, right?

05:00.73 Matt Yes, I've been working on some really great campaigns. We just recently finished a campaign up in Bloomington, Indiana — the home of the NCAA national football champions — at St.

05:14.14 Host Excellent.

05:16.16 Matt Paul's. They did a phenomenal job there. Father Patrick and Tom and Danielle and the rest of the team — great job. We just finished up their campaign up there. They've got a few more loose ends they're finishing up before they call it quits, but they're doing great. I'm also working with a wonderful group at Northwestern.

05:42.38 Matt It's called the Shield Catholic Center. They're doing wonderful work over there. And then I actually have some closer clients — for the first time in my Petrus career — which is Epiphany Church here in Oklahoma City.

05:57.72 Matt They're doing phenomenally. Holy Family Cathedral in Tulsa.

05:58.09 Host All right.

06:01.52 Matt And then Conway, Arkansas has a St. Joseph's School that is doing great. All the clients are really doing wonderful, and it's a true blessing to work with each one of them.

06:15.67 Matt On the other side of it, as one of the special projects — if you work for Petrus, not only are you a consultant, but everybody has a special project that they either get their arm twisted into doing, or they find a passion project that they end up taking the reins on and running with.

06:32.74 Matt So I've been doing a lot of work with you, Ren, and with Andrew on AI — and how we as a company can be at the forefront and help our consultants and development directors really use AI to help with efficiency in their day-to-day, while also staying ethically correct and within the teachings of the Church, making sure all of that is aligned so that we're doing good work.

07:05.73 Host I love it. Yeah. I think a lot of people, when they hear "AI," they think about writing homilies or just writing for you basically. Some of the things that we've been able to do — writing our own programs and having it handle different tasks behind the scenes — has been pretty mind-blowing for a couple of guys with no background in computer engineering, software engineering, or anything. So it's pretty wild to see what's happening there.

07:37.27 Host But that's not the topic we want to discuss in depth today. I know we're going to talk about that plenty more in the future, based on some of the work we've been doing and the results we've been seeing. But today we want to bring you in to talk about a term — actually, several different terms that all refer to the same thing: advisory council, leadership council, advisory committee, leadership committee. Once in a while you hear "blue ribbon committee" — all referring to the same thing.

08:04.15 Host An advisory body that helps advise your nonprofit and assists with some of the tasks, especially fundraising. I know you've done a lot of work with that, Matt — both in day-to-day activity at a nonprofit and in capital campaigns. So today we want to talk about how to build one of these committees if you don't have one already, or if you do have one, how to evaluate it and maybe rebuild it if necessary.

08:28.52 Host In the next episode, we'll go into much more depth on how to manage the day-to-day of that committee month to month. But for today, we'll talk about how to build that committee. How does that sound to you, Matt?

08:40.95 Matt Sounds great.

08:42.49 Host Excellent. So as we get started, let's define our terms. When we're talking about that leadership committee, that advisory committee — and I'll just say "leadership committee" for now since those terms all get used interchangeably — what is the leadership committee? What does it look like? What does it do?

09:00.31 Matt Absolutely. So when I think of a leadership committee, I automatically go to a parish council or finance council.

09:06.85 Host Mm-hmm.

09:07.94 Matt That's not necessarily what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about that group or committee that helps you in the fundraising world — whether they're helping you run a gala, put together a golf tournament, or just your annual appeals and major gift work. They help you from a fundraising standpoint.

09:33.17 Matt So I think that's the defining direction we should go. And I've heard it called many things, just like you. "Campaign committee" is an obvious one if you're in the middle of a campaign — you must have a campaign committee.

09:48.66 Matt But if you're not in the middle of a campaign, you don't necessarily need a campaign committee. Many times they'll call it a development committee, fundraising committee, or as you said, simply a leadership committee.

10:03.58 Host Right. Where should we start? Let's talk about size. How big is this committee? Are we talking two people, ten people, fifteen? What's the scope of a committee like this?

10:18.67 Matt That's a great question. First, let's look realistically at your nonprofit. If you're in the middle of a campaign and you're building a campaign committee, 12 to 15 members is where you want to be.

10:32.28 Matt You don't want any more, and you don't want any less.

10:32.88 Host Right.

10:34.74 Matt Many times we encourage couples — husbands and wives — to be a part of that committee together. They would count as two, not one entity. Now, if you're outside of a campaign and looking at your committees, consider truly how much work you have for them to do. You don't want a group of 15 committee members when you only have a couple of things going on throughout the year.

10:59.38 Matt You'll have many members who aren't able to contribute and they'll fall off the committee, and it runs the possibility of becoming a lame duck committee. We don't want that. So if you have a smaller operation, think about six or seven people.

11:16.66 Matt But if you have a larger operation, a larger nonprofit, I'd still stick with 12 to 15.

11:16.85 Host Hmm.

11:23.38 Matt And if you need more than that — more help or more horsepower — you really have to start looking at subcommittees. You can have subcommittees that handle specific tasks without being full members of the main committee.

11:38.04 Host Got it. What are some of the specific responsibilities that committee members are going to have? You mentioned a fundraising committee — can you break down what some of the typical responsibilities are?

11:51.90 Matt Number one: they have to financially give to your nonprofit.

11:55.76 Host Hmm.

11:57.18 Matt Now, take that with a grain of salt. Some committees have active priests or sisters on the committee.

12:09.55 Host Right.

12:09.98 Matt And of course we don't expect that from them. But if they're your average layperson, they should give at whatever level is comfortable for them. Some larger organizations have a larger commitment level because that's what's needed.

12:24.49 Matt But number one — they should give and they should support. Why else are they helping you fundraise?

12:27.63 Host Yeah, so like you're saying, some organizations — especially larger ones — have a written expectation for the donation amount. Like, you must make a gift of at least a certain size to be on this committee.

12:40.32 Matt Yeah, exactly.

12:42.17 Host Got it.

12:42.39 Matt Other pieces include time commitment. They should commit to attending each of the meetings you schedule — as many as they possibly can. Of course, things come up.

12:55.09 Matt But on average, a person shouldn't miss more than one, maybe two per year. The second thing is any major events you have planned — it's an expectation that committee members are present at those. And then there's the talent aspect. They should be actively participating in the committee, taking on different roles and helping in different areas — whatever that looks like, they should be actively working within the committee.

13:34.14 Matt There was another one and I've forgotten it. Sorry. I'm going to have to think about it here.

13:45.49 Host Would you say making connections or raising money?

13:51.75 Matt That's it.

13:52.41 Host Yeah.

13:52.55 Matt Yep, that's it. And I think the last part — and this is the most important thing that committee members can do — is introduce you. And when I say "you," I'm referring to the nonprofit. Introduce the nonprofit to their Rolodex of friends, the people who they think could potentially want to help and support what you're doing, who would have a meaningful connection to your ministry. This should be an ongoing thing every month. You should be consistently and constantly bringing names to the development director and executive director and offering to make a connection. Now, not all great committee members are going to schedule a visit, go on a visit, and make an invitation to give.

14:42.99 Matt I'm not saying those are requirements for every member, but you should be comfortable reaching out to your friend Tom and saying, "Hey Tom, I'd love to introduce you to the development director at Nonprofit A. Are you free over the next couple of weeks so I can connect you two?"

15:03.06 Matt Some form of that is a phenomenal connection, and it's needed.

15:09.50 Host Definitely. Another effective way I've seen that in action is having committee members host a wine and cheese at their home and invite five or six couples from their network who they think would have an interest in the ministry — to come socialize, meet someone from the ministry, and hear why they support it. Then you invite the staff from the ministry to talk about what's going on and make an ask. I think that's a very effective way of establishing those connections. And in an indirect way, it's not quite as intimidating as sending an email or making a phone call — it's inviting someone to a social event, meeting them there, and starting the relationship from that point.

16:07.32 Matt Yeah, that sounds great. I love those events.

16:09.88 Host Excellent. Let me jump a little out of order from what I was going to ask. You mentioned not missing too many meetings in a given year — how many meetings are typical for a committee like this? Is this weekly, monthly, quarterly?

16:25.88 Matt If you're in a campaign, you're meeting once or twice every month. If you're not in the middle of campaign work and it's normal day-to-day operations, you're usually looking at once a month to quarterly. If it's quarterly, you better not miss a meeting.

16:47.99 Host Yeah.

16:48.06 Matt But at times it could be once a month. And if you do choose to go quarterly, as you get closer to a bigger event —

16:59.16 Matt a golf fundraiser or your gala, for example — you might increase your meetings to once a month or even once a week, just to get all the work done leading up to that point. But typically, during a campaign it's once to twice a month, and outside of campaign work it's either once a month or quarterly.

17:21.43 Host Got it. What are some of the qualities an organization should look for when identifying potential people for these committees?

17:34.33 Matt Okay, this might be a little controversial, but I'm going to say it anyway.

17:35.94 Host Yeah.

17:42.74 Matt Number one — it has to be a working committee, not a reporting committee. I'll say that again: it has to be a working committee, not a reporting committee.

17:54.65 Host Okay.

17:55.54 Matt What does that mean? It means you don't need, as development director or executive director, another board to report to, tell them what you're doing, and then have them approve it.

18:03.97 Host Right.

18:05.80 Matt You need a board you can go to and say, "Okay, here's the problem — let's tackle this together."

18:12.04 Host Hmm.

18:13.21 Matt If you have a reporting committee — one where you're reporting to them, seeking their approval, and then they're telling you what to do — you might as well cancel it, throw it in the trash, and start all over, because it's not going to be helpful. You'll be beating your head against the wall. Now, on the other hand, a working committee — just as the name says — these people are willing to go to work for you. That talks to the style of the committee, which gets us to what we're looking for individually.

18:48.12 Matt You want people who have a large sphere of influence. They know a lot of people.

18:54.95 Host Okay.

18:55.05 Matt They're well connected within your community. They know many people within it and can connect you to them. So that's one — they have a large Rolodex of influencers.

19:08.70 Matt Two — they can walk out into their backyard and talk to a tree for 15 minutes.

19:14.14 Host Ha!

19:16.02 Matt I say that jokingly, but what I mean is they have the personality to go and work a room and talk to somebody and take those steps. You don't have to have that in every member, but if you had a committee filled with those types of individuals, it'd be great. Even half or a quarter of your committee with those kinds of individuals is still okay. But when you're building it, that's what you're looking for — someone who's a go-getter, who's driven, who wants a task and will accomplish it, and who can talk to a tree for 15 minutes without skipping a beat.

19:53.91 Matt And then lastly, you're looking for little qualities that specifically help your nonprofit. Maybe you're professionally deficient in the area of design —

20:05.19 Host Mm-hmm.

20:05.26 Matt — it'd be great to have someone on your committee who is a strong designer, so they can supplement what you're not as good at. If you have something in the political sphere, having politically connected people would be great. Or say you're a nonprofit foundation tied to a hospital — it'd be great to have someone on your committee who is connected to the hospital, who understands its daily operations and what's needed.

20:36.25 Matt So I'd call those little quirks specific to your nonprofit that would be great to supplement your weaknesses within that committee and help grow your organization.

20:48.89 Host That makes a lot of sense. I was working with a school recently, and they have a lot of construction and maintenance things coming up. We talked about how they should probably look for somebody with experience in those areas for their committee, because they didn't have anyone on staff who knew how to oversee that process or what considerations to take into account. So that's one example of finding somebody with expertise that you might need and bringing them into your committee.

21:22.39 Matt Absolutely.

21:22.71 Host The rule of thumb for a starting point that one of my mentors always told me — when selecting committee members in a Catholic setting — is people of great faith, influence, and affluence. If you're in a non-faith-based setting, maybe it's mission alignment, influence, and affluence, something like that. But that's always at least a good starting point. If they've got those things, you're on the right track. There's still some work to do to find the right people, but — what would you say is in it for the committee members? Why would they want to be part of this committee?

22:01.62 Matt You know, I mentioned earlier St. Paul's in Bloomington, Indiana. There was a wonderful couple — I won't embarrass them by mentioning their name on the podcast — but there was a wonderful couple who...

22:14.58 Matt They were from Chicago, and their son was a member of the St. Paul's community and was going to school there. They were asked to be a part of the committee.

22:26.78 Matt They sat and thought about it, and then they came back and told the story of how they viewed what they were doing on that committee as their apostolate. This was something they believed in, wanted to work with, and it was doing good work for the Church.

23:07.84 Host Hmm.

23:12.98 Matt This was their volunteer time. They were firm believers that everybody should give back to their church in whatever way they could, and this was the way they had chosen. They were fully invested in this committee to get it done. Working with them was eye-opening because they were phenomenally efficient.

23:33.62 Matt They knew what was going on, they were organized, and on top of every aspect of it. They led the subcommittee that planned the public launch.

23:45.40 Matt And they'll be the ones who lead the celebration event as well. So what's in it for them?

23:50.44 Host Excellent.

23:53.85 Matt This is their opportunity to give back to something that matters to them.

23:59.19 Host Yeah.

24:00.22 Matt And for most of us, we want to leave this world having left it in a better place than when we got here.

24:13.69 Matt Every one of us, I feel, feels that desire and that need — did our time really matter? And we want to be able to say, yes, it did matter here.

24:24.43 Host Right.

24:24.63 Matt Working with nonprofits and putting in some of our time to do that fulfills that desire and need. So is it self-serving? Maybe slightly. Is it selfish? Maybe slightly. But it's the human condition — what we're here to do. So to answer the question, what do they get back from it? Altruistically, it's the opportunity to leave the world in a better place.

24:57.40 Host Yeah, I think there's also a networking element — maybe even professionally — because you're going to be working with other people of influence and affluence on that committee. But I think just having the chance to connect with other people who clearly care deeply about the same mission is a real opportunity too. So I think that's an important element as well, from what I've experienced.

25:21.78 Matt Absolutely.

25:23.38 Host Excellent. Let's see — I have two more questions. Let's talk about this first. If you're an organization that already has a leadership committee and you're moving into a capital campaign, should that leadership committee become your de facto campaign committee, or should you look for other people? How do you typically see that play out in your experience?

25:50.93 Matt Are we a family-friendly podcast?

25:53.16 Host We are.

25:54.10 Matt Okay. No. That's a simple answer. Now, could there be a person or two on that committee who carries over? Possibly.

26:09.43 Matt But I wouldn't count on it. I would start your campaign committee fresh. And the biggest "no" I was really thinking of is going from a parish council or finance committee to a leadership committee.

26:21.38 Host Gotcha.

26:21.91 Matt If it involves a development committee, it may not be as hard of a no. But these are individuals who have put in so much of their time, and they've got their habits in place — they know how things work.

26:32.92 Matt A capital campaign has a tendency to come in and shake all of that up — everything changes for a short amount of time. So if you've got some old guard in there, you're going to have a difficult time training them into the different formats you need. So I would say no, and you've got the opportunity to bring in some new blood, new energy, and different ideas. Could some of them carry over? Yes, but I wouldn't start there. I would start by asking: if I were going to build the best capital campaign committee from the community I know, who would I ask to be on it?

27:20.64 Host Got it.

27:20.92 Matt And if it happens to be a current leadership committee member, great. If none of them are asked, that's fine too. Start by building the all-star team, and then go from there.

27:35.06 Host Great. And maybe that brings up one more question I'll crowbar in here — we probably should have talked about it earlier. When forming an ongoing leadership committee — not a campaign committee — it's pretty common to set terms and term limits for members, right? Maybe a two or three year term, with the possibility of doing two terms. Is that pretty typical of what you've seen?

27:59.42 Matt Yeah, I've seen it go as long as three terms, and then there's the possibility that at the end of all those terms, the leadership group could approve an additional term for an individual if they chose to.

28:11.34 Matt That's typical. But one thing — I don't like to see a president serve more than one term. I do like to see the vice president, or president-in-training, involved before they take their turn, so they can learn on the job before it's all thrown onto their shoulders.

28:32.44 Matt But we should always be continuing to grow, bringing in new blood and new ideas, and giving the opportunity for those who have done their time to retire gracefully and put their talents to work elsewhere.

28:47.42 Host Yeah.

28:51.90 Matt Is coming back after taking a term off possible because they loved it so much? Possibly. But sometimes we need that gentle nudge to say —

29:03.13 Matt "Thank you. We appreciate you. Now go do something else for a little while and see if you really want to come back next term."

29:12.54 Host Got it. Excellent. Last question — what are some common mistakes you see organizations make when forming a leadership committee?

29:22.81 Matt The biggest mistake you can make is building a reporting committee instead of a working committee. And how that starts is — in the first meeting, after you share what you're planning to do, you begin reporting to the committee on what you've already done.

29:39.76 Host Yeah.

29:40.54 Matt You need to start from day one by saying, "Here are the areas I need help. This is what I need to get done. Can I have some volunteers?"

29:47.58 Host I'll add another angle to that from what I've seen.

29:49.05 Matt And then...

29:52.70 Host A cheerleading committee is the other version of that — people who are very enthusiastic about your mission and love what you're doing, cheering from the sidelines. But when it comes to actually getting out there and making connections, if they either can't or won't do that, it's not very effective for your organization.

30:15.83 Matt You know, I love cheerleading committees. You walk in and everybody's great.

30:19.70 Host It feels good.

30:21.39 Matt Yeah, you're right.

30:21.66 Host But it doesn't make things happen.

30:22.87 Matt You're right. Yeah, you're still running into a non-working committee, and that's not what's best for your organization.

30:28.34 Host Yeah. My takeaway from that is that interest in your mission isn't the only element. When you're inviting people onto the committee, there has to be both a willingness to give and a willingness to go out, do the work, and make connections for you.

30:48.06 Matt Yep.

30:48.82 Host Good. Any other mistakes you've seen people make when forming these committees?

30:54.42 Matt Not keeping the committee well-informed is another one. You want to keep them in the loop between meetings. Keep agendas rolling, keep meeting times consistent, and try to keep your committee schedule set in stone. That's a mistake when it's not.

31:10.87 Matt The other thing is sometimes you have really strong personalities on a committee. You've got to make sure to hear the voices of the less vocal members too.

31:23.64 Matt Especially as you're newly growing — if you have 12 to 15 members, you can't listen to three or four and ignore the other eight.

31:35.48 Host Got it. Well, that might be a good place to stop and segue. In our next episode, Episode 191, we're going to dig into getting the most out of your leadership council and how to manage it day to day.

31:40.76 Matt Ah, okay.

31:51.01 Host And maybe we can dig into that a little more in that episode in a couple of weeks.

31:56.31 Matt Sounds great. Let's do it.

31:58.01 Host All right, we'll see you there.